I have often heard people talk about what would have happened to Adam and Eve if sin had never entered the world? Would they have died? Would they have lived forever in Eden? Would they have been transferred at some point to “heaven?” It is in a real sense a question of little consequence since sin did come, but many of the greats did ponder the answer, Luther included.
So allow me, one of the least, to offer another question. If Jesus had not taken upon himself our sins, would he have died? Death is the wages of sin, and Jesus had no sin. He had no original sin being conceived by the Holy Ghost. He was like us in all ways except one, that he had no actual sins either. And that all being true, here is my question: would Jesus has died if he had not truly taken upon himself our sins? Or perhaps more powerfully, could he have died? Remember bring mortal is not synonymous to being human. Adam and Eve were human and yet not mortal until they sinned. Best I can tell, resurrected believers will be very much still human, and yet not mortal.
And while this might be chalked up to another useless area of speculation (as I am sure Chris will suggest), I would suggest that if this logic is sound, Jesus’ actual death gives even more powerful witness to the reality of substitutionary atonement. The fact that he died becomes proof that he had someone else sins upon him in a very real way. Namely, yours and mine. For according to His nature, he could not die. Only if He in every real ontological sense takes our sins upon himself can he die.
Would Jesus has died if he had not taken upon himself our sins? Well as we know, he did take our sins and did die. And so perhaps this line of thought is not of consequence, but it at the very least may deepen our appreciation of the reality of what Jesus did for us.
Phil,
I will not say that this is speculation since we have ample testimony from the Holy Fathers.
I would suggest, however, that your saying “Best I can tell, resurrected believers will be very much still human, and yet not mortal” speaks much as to the great gift we receive but also clarifies that God is so transcendent beyond what we are. I would go so far as to say, echoing the Holy Fathers and the testimony of the Scriptures, that partaking of the resurrection will make into reality what it means to be truly human, that is to love and worship our Lord and God and Saviour with all our heart mind and soul.
I know you don’t buy into the essence-energies distinction that the Orthodox teach and profess, but we believe that we can only partake of what God is only through His energies such as His compassion, love, mercy, grace, etc. OUr resurrection will cause a newness of life in what it truly means to be human and yet still cementing that we are created while God is the essence that cannot not be.
You conclude with “would Jesus have died if he had not taken upon Himself our sins?…it at the very least may deepen our appreciation of what Jesus did for us.” Yes, because Christ’s death and resurrection cannot totally and only be appreciated or understood in terms of forensic justification. As the Paschal Troparion says, “Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life.”
This is not a speculative matter Phil, because here we have testimony from the fathers and the Scriptures.
MHO.